Being a mum can sometimes be a lonely business, even if you’re surrounded by people. Loneliness in Australia was on the rise even before Covid19 hit, so how has this new world of social distancing, isolation and working from home impacted us emotionally? Host Amelia Phillips speaks to clinical psychologist Dr Michelle Lim to find out how we can reduce feelings of loneliness and identify if people around us are feeling lonely and need our support.
Below is an unedited transcript of the podcast episode:
I was lying on the couch the other night and I saw this mash up on TV of all these video clips of these gorgeous grandkids sending messages of love to their grandparents about how they were missing them. Hi, no, I miss you so much. Um, can you push me on the swing when I see you again? And it just hit me in that moment.
How much these grandparents must be missing their grandkids and vice versa. Surely that’s gotta impact our feelings of loneliness and mental health. I can just feel it. I know that when all this is over, I am going to be hugging my friends and my extended family so much tighter than I ever had before, and really trying to foster these meaningful connections.
This is Healthy. Her with Amelia Phillips loneliness in Australia was on the rise even before Covid 19 hit with moms and children being two of the groups that are at risk. But how about loneliness in the wake of social distancing, isolation, and work from home laws. I mean, how has this new world wherein impacted people’s feelings of loneliness?
You know, who is at risk and what can we do about it? Dr. Michelle Loom is a registered clinical psychologist and leads the Social Health and Wellbeing Laboratory out of Swim Burn University in Melbourne. Hi Michelle. Thanks for coming on today. Thanks for having. You’ve been researching loneliness for eight years.
Tell me a bit about this research you’ve been doing. So, a lot of the research I’ve been doing is kind of looking at the impact of loneliness on mental health. And as we know, um, you know, loneliness and, and social isolation is, is a, an issue during. Uh, Covid 19 pandemic. So right now what we are doing is actually trying to find out, um, how COVID 19 has actually affected the way we relate to people, um, how we live and how we function.
And we’re actually doing a global study right now to actually look at how these levels of social restrictions actually impact on our loneliness, um, on the way we interact, whether we’re using. Social media more the way we cope, uh, whether we are actually drinking more because of stresses related to, um, Covid 19 pandemic.
So there’s a massive study that’s kind of being held around the world and that’s something that we’re doing right now. Have you got any hypotheses about how you think this will impact? That’s a very good question, and. As we know, you know, across the globe, they’re very different in terms of the level of social restrictions that we have.
We do think that the, um, more social restrictions we have, uh, the more lonely, the more isolated, the poorer mental health we have. Um, and what we also think here is that we will find these contributing. Factors like, uh, if you have lost your job, if you have unstable employment, those things will actually add to feeling more lonely.
Uh, those are hypothesis at the moment, of course, because we’ve never had a pandemic before, but that’s what we are expecting. What I’ll be really interested to know with the data is whether there’s been this kind of slingshot effect where as soon as restrictions are lifted and we’re back to normal, everyone’s gonna party like hard and just socialize like we’ve never socialized before.
Or whether it’s gonna be the flip side where everyone kind of stays in hibernation and gets used to, um, you know, staying at home. Yeah, that’s a very good hypothesis. That could be a slingshot effect. And this is something that we will be able to detect because we actually monitor people with six months.
So, you know, depending on the level restrictions, whether it’s, you know, being. Put on or, or getting taken off because you know, it’s a global study, so it is also outside of Australia. We want to be able to see those effects. But the other thing is also kind of thinking about how people are coping differently across different countries.
So that’s another, uh, point of interest for a lot of the researchers. Tell me a little bit about the state of Aussie’s loneliness before Covid 19 hit. Was it an issue In 2018 and 2019, we did large scale community surveys around how Australians feel about their relationships, and this is mostly Australians that don’t live alone.
even though a small portion do. And we found that at least one in four Australians, uh, reported what we call problematic levels of loneliness, which is quite significantly higher than the average, uh, population. So, you know, a fair amount of, of people were already feeling that their relationships weren’t really meeting up.
Expectations prior to Covid 19. And is that your definition of loneliness, that people’s relationships aren’t meeting the expectation? That’s right. So loneliness is what we call a perceived social isolation. So you feel like your current relationships are not quite meeting the expectations of all, all ideal relationships that you would prefer.
So this might actually be more along the lines of not feeling your relat. Are strong. So the quality of those ties that you have, a little bit less so with quantity. So you, loneliness is really what we call subjective, uh, feeling of, of social isolation. So, what’s your take on how Covid will affect loneliness levels?
Now? The truth of the matter is that we don’t actually, uh, or we’ve never had any kind of imposed social restrictions before, you know, and, and there weren’t any studies. Um, that have been done on this global scale where, you know, many of us are going through some level of social restrictions, so we don’t really know the longer term impacts.
What we do know is that people who are already lonely, they are going to have these added barriers because they’re going to have much fewer face to face social interactions. Now, of course, it depends. , it’s one, um, level of resources and access to other people. Um, and I think that this is, this pandemic really has highlighted how important it is for us to maintain healthy, positive relationships in our lives, um, because we really do have to activate them, uh, during a time of crisis.
Yeah. It’s so funny you say that because I literally dream about. The long lunch I’m gonna have with my girlfriends and I like message them and say, I already know, you know, I can almost taste the margarita in my hand and I am just craving us four girls together sitting at the table. And I really miss the body language and the, just all those subtle cues that you get when you connect with someone face to face that you just don’t get over Zoom or FaceTime or anything like that.
Yeah, and I think you are correct. I. When we are interacting almost solely on a new modality, uh, where we’re highly relied only on, uh, some sort of technology, I think people are actually reporting a higher level of, um, stress around needing to concentrate very hard and, and actually report what we call almost the social isolation fatigue, where people are actually not sleeping as well, They’re actually going to bed earlier, um, because they’re, they’re finding it hard to adjust.
New mode of interaction and almost entirely, uh, digital or using technology and not their usual face to face interactions. I’m curious to know, I know that there is no research available yet cuz we’ve never been in a pandemic like this before, but what sort of long term impacts can you see happening?
What we do have in terms of research is we do know that, uh, social isolation itself, or if you’re living. or if you’re lonely, uh, actually predicts a higher likelihood of an earlier death. So we do know that those trends without the, the environment of Covid 19, we do know that just being by ourselves or feeling like.
You are by yourself and no one has your back. Um, actually causes us to react with, uh, more stress responses and we actually are more likely to be more unwell with cardiometabolic risk factors, uh, poorer, uh, blood. Pressure regulation, uh, you know, and lower quality of life. So we do know those things. But in terms of the longer impacts, uh, we expect a psychologist that there are going to be longer, uh, negative impacts on mental health and there may also be, uh, more issues with people who, um, have, you know, chronic physical health, condit.
We already know, for example, people are not really going to emergency departments. You know, they’re actually avoiding, uh, seeking treatment because of the fear of actually catching the virus. And this actually may then lead into more complicating, um, you know, symptoms that they, they already have and it’s just exacerbates.
Yeah, of course. Because you know, if you wanna go and get your sort of routine prostate checkup or your annual skin check or anything like that, you might be putting that off at the moment, which we all know a lot of those, uh, diseases. Um, early intervention is the aim of the game. Let’s delve into particular population.
So let’s start with moms, for example. How do you think Covid is going to impact moms moving forward? I think that, um, And this is a real, uh, great example of how, you know you might be living with children and. Functioning around, um, you know, a larger unit, um, doesn’t mean that you don’t feel stressed out or lonely.
Um, and I think you gave a really fantastic example, me just now about hanging out with your girlfriends. We all know that relationships, um, and different kinds of relationships give us different things. And when you are stuck with little children at home, you know, it can actually, um, you know, reduce your ability to.
Gain your social needs from some other relationship because you’re constantly taking care of little ones. And if you are also a working mom on top of that, um, having to still be expected to do your nine to five job on top of taking care of children, that is particularly hard. So I think, um, you know, there’s this level of, um, and, and some moms talk about feeling trapped, for example.
And, and, and. You know, hoping that schools will reopen at some point or that is safe enough to actually send their their kids back to school. Cuz just because schools open doesn’t mean that’s safe. You know, looking forward to the day where they can make those decisions and, and that they can, can actually do their work without those interruptions.
I think it’s been, for me, a real eye opener in how important those five minute interactions with friends and moms at the school gate and going to after school sport or in the workplace. And it’s funny when those are taken away. You realize how, actually how important they were and just that quick download with the mom about how kids are driving you nuts or you had an argument with your partner.
Now that I’m not having those and I have to have this formal Zoom meeting or you know, try to get bingo happening on Zoom and everyone’s talking over each other, I miss those and I can feel how you start to have that feeling of being trapped. But then I think about children. Right. How do you think this is impacting kids who are, you know, such social little butterflies at school all day?
That’s a very good question, and I also depend, I think it depends on the age group as well, because as, as still as we know, teenagers, for example, you know, have a fear of missing out. Fomo. Yes, absolutely . And even though they’re very competent with using technology, um, there are people who prefer shed activity.
Um, you know, just what we call almost incidental social interaction, which is what you described just now, you know the need for that. And I think this pandemic has highlighted how we are all awe, you know, we, we all make up this social fabric, you know, and, and the virus has. Um, started to expose that, you know, that once you actually have to, you know, uh, almost kind of break the social fabric, that people actually get stressed out and actually realize, Oh, I’m so dependent on that minute.
Level of interaction and, and children and, and teenagers and, and young adults are no different, you know, And it might be in fact more of a challenge for them because a lot of them have higher social needs than adults and older adults, you know? So, um, they need more to actually feel more fulfilled. And what about.
Older children that are, you know, using social media. You know, we are always told that you’ve gotta limit the screen time and children shouldn’t be interacting through social media all the time. But obviously in this environment they are interacting more through social media, which can have its own challenges.
Do you see that? As a worry that kids might be spending more time on social media or do you think it’s necessary in this environment? And, Okay. I guess where we, we kind of pull it back a little bit is, is that, you know, for us is understanding how long a persistent we are going to be in this level of social restrictions where we do only have to, or, or can only interact, um, using technology.
Cuz I imagine. Something kind of more temporary. It’s probably the effects of the longer term effects, um, aren’t actually there. Uh, with the current research without, uh, I guess the Covid 19 environment. There’s this, what we call a Go Locks, uh, kind of hypothesis around social media use. So not too much, not too little, just right.
And in fact there’s some research around if, um, Children or young people are not allowed at all to interact with their friends or technology. They actually suffer, you know, and, and this idea of like missing out on shared activity that’s done by their peers and that that can actually have a very detrimental effect on them as well.
And then of course, the opposite end is where you are on it all the time. And, and, and maybe you might be more exposed to, uh, the negative. Specs, whether it’s bullying, cyber bullying, or you know, uh, where young people may compare the. To each other too much and then you, you get the detrimental effects. So, you know, I think the theory here is about how you use it is more important and actually limiting a time where, um, you don’t actually, uh, have those detrimental effects coming in.
What about older populations? I mean, I’ve never had more Facebook messages and meme sent to me from my mom, um, , who’s a social butterfly, and I think she’s feeling the pinch. Um, she’s in her late seventies and she’s definitely feeling it. What’s your thoughts on older populations and how they’re weathering their covid storm?
I think it’s very, very hard for old Australians. Especially when, you know, a lot of them are reliant on the day to day interactions that they have, maybe, you know, around the community. And now not being able to do that, it’s a massive, uh, I guess massive toll on their mental health, you know? And. It’s very hard sometimes to persuade some older Australians to stay home and, and to reduce the social activity.
And I think it was very much the case earlier on, uh, when we actually started to just implement the social restrictions. Um, I feel at this stage, you know, um, all of us have to chip in to help the more vulnerable because Covid 19 has really highlighted. Uh, the, the, I guess the fractures in our society, those who are socially vulnerable, those who are economically vulnerable, and those are those of us who are lucky or more fortunate, uh, should actually be doing our little part.
Uh, whether it’s reaching out to, to another Australian who might. Need instrumental support or emotional support. Um, and, and of course doing those things within the guidelines of our, you know, health department, for example. Uh, all of us have a role to play and I think that this COVID 19 has really highlighted.
All those vulnerable groups like, or Australians that, you know, we, we can all do something to help. And I do think this is one of the upsides and the positives that’s coming out of this situation is that kind of global coming together and you hear the stories of the, you know, apartment blocks in the Piazza in.
Italy where they’re opening their windows and having trivia contests or singing or, you know, that kind of thing I think is a beautiful way of coming together. And one of the upsides, Tell me, Michelle, what can we do to help others feel less lonely as a mom? You know, we’ve got girlfriends, we’ve got older family members, we’ve got children.
What are some things we can do to help those that might be feeling the loneliness, pinch around us? Look, if, if you, um, have technology do, do use it, but do use it wisely and in smart ways, right? So I think I often hear about a lot of people kind of just turning on Zoom for the sake of just having someone there but not really interacting.
You know, if we are going to interact now, And we are gonna interact using technology or even just having a chat, you know, with your neighbor across the fence, make that interaction really meaningful and, and put in the effort because, you know, those little meaningful interactions make a massive difference.
Um, I think that it, it focusing on the quality as opposed to quantity. Much more useful, especially, um, making someone feel valued. That’s something that we can do. Um, and also we can help people who we don’t know, , you know, people who live in a community and an elderly neighbor. We might not know their name, but it doesn’t stop you from putting a note under their door and asking if there’s anything they need.
Um, making sure that you. That, you know, someone’s got their back as well. And I think you said this very clearly, you know, the community spirit is strong, you know, and I think we need to activate that. You know, is it donation to the food bank? Is it helping out, uh, vulnerable, uh, students at this stage? That, that’s, again, those little.
Things can make a difference. Um, don’t discount those little actions. Um, I think often people say, Well, you know, um, I’m also, you know, in a vulnerable position. Well, all of us are, so we all have to kind of wear this together and we can weather this together. Um, I think what we really need is a strong community approach, not just taking care of friends and families, but kind of the, the wider c.
What about ourselves? What about if we are sitting here right now feeling like we’ve just become full blown introverts and we not connecting with anyone, and we’re starting to feel that loneliness, pinch, but maybe also kind of a bit shy and. Introverted and not wanting to reach out. What should we do when we are feeling lonely ourselves?
Emily, that’s a a very good question because I think that most people, uh, when we talk about loneliness, most people don’t want to say that they’re lonely and they. , they’re reluctant because, you know, there’s this connotation there’s something wrong with you when in fact there isn’t. Yeah, it’s embarrassing.
It’s like, you know, you don’t mind saying that you’re mad or you feel guilty as a mom, but I could never imagine going to someone I don’t know very well and going, Ah, I’m a bit of a Nigel. Nobody, I’m feeling a bit lonely right now. I think what we really need to acknowledge here is that loneliness is a need and, and just because we live with someone, or just because we have children or we’re married, doesn’t mean.
We can’t be lonely. Um, you know, our social needs are met by many different kinds of relationships, not just one. So, and it’s okay, you know, there are people who might be quite satisfied, for example, with just one person. But if that’s not you, that’s actually really okay. That just means that, you know, you need, your social needs to be met by a variety of different things.
You know, that’s more, you need more color. In your social interactions and in your social world and being able to ask for help, um, in a way that you feel comfortable without signaling the vulnerability. Um, you know, there are ways of doing that, but being kind of a bit more overt to ask for, for that interaction is actually quite important because when people do feel lonely, they.
Really ask for a company or they don’t actually ask for those interactions very clearly. And I think actually being able to. You know, use Covid 19 as a bit of a, an excuse to actually say, I, I’m really feeling really isolated and lonely and stressed up because all of this, I really need a friend right now.
I just need to just check someone, you know, kind of really casually, but also really stressing the importance of that need. That’s actually absolutely, uh, your, your right to take care of your own health and if you can take care of your mental health. You know, you’ll take care of of, of the people who live around you.
Definitely. If someone reached out to me like that, um, I would hear that loud and clear and, you know, do what I could to assist them. So I think that message of if you are feeling lonely, you know, do reach out and do be clear about it, is a really, really good one. Michelle, one last parting thought from you on.
Meaningful connections. What’s a tip of how we can really foster a meaningful connection with somebody else? I think meaningful connections take time and detect effort. And they don’t appear magically. Um, I think a lot of people, uh, sometimes they have old friends that they’ve known, you know, since pri like primary school or high school, and they go, Oh, well, you know, I don’t have to put an effort in this with this person.
They’re always there. But that, that can be quite rare. And I think most relationships take. Work. They, they don’t have to take, um, a lot of work all at one time, but most relationships take a little bit of effort over a period of time and that that’s the kind of stuff that grows, um, and it’s worth it to, to actually put in that effort.
We don’t have to, to make massive gestures. Uh, to actually please our friends. But the little things that we can do matter, and those little things often don’t cost money. You know, checking in on someone, having that thought and having that care. Um, making sure that, you know, if a friend is in crisis, to show that support right away and, and to acknowledge that their, you know, their feelings.
And that’s really important for us to nurture along the way. And if anything, I think Covid 19 has really highlighted the need for these healthy relationships. We need to develop them and we need to maintain them because at times a crisis, it’s really important that we have, uh, a strong network around us.
Michelle, thank you so much. I’m, I am feeling a bit lonely in the booth here all by myself while you are across , across the state, but you’re making me feel that little bit less lonely by chatting with you now. Thanks so much for your time. Thanks, Amelia.
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