Struggling to know where to even begin in home-schooling your kids? In this episode about navigating coronavirus with kids, online learning expert Dr Selina Samuels gives host Amelia Phillips her top tips on how to make home-schooling effective, fun and engaging, whilst not putting too much pressure on parents.
Below is an unedited transcript of the podcast episode:
I get this email from my kid’s school the other day saying, Here’s the information you need for homeschooling from term two onwards.
And that word onwards just hit me like a ton of bricks. I mean, it’s one thing to homeschool for a couple of weeks or for a month, but the thought of having to homeschool for a whole term, or God forbid a whole year, Just made me feel really overwhelmed. How the hell am I going to be the sole person responsible for not letting my kids lose a year of education?
Now I’m overwhelmed that I get no break from my kids, like no break from four kids. And then at the same time, I feel sad for my kids. I feel like they’re missing out. They’re missing the bonds of their friendships, playing in the playground, collaborating. You know, Charlotte started kindy this year and I feel like she’s losing kindergarten.
No class photos, no class picnic as planned. It’s hard not to get overwhelmed and saddened by it all. But I know there’s an upside to all this, and I’m determined to find it.
This is Healthy Her with Amelia Phillips and in this special series Navigating Covid 19 with Kids. I’m wanting to help my fellow moms get through this difficult time as best we can. In this episode, I wanna learn some of the best strategies for homeschooling and how we can stay sane through the whole process.
Cuz I can tell you I’m not feeling very sane. Right. Dr. Seina Samuels has 30 years of experience in education, both as a high school teacher and a university lecturer. She specializes in online learning and is the chief learning officer at Clue Learning and Online Tutoring service that delivers over 50,000 online lessons.
High Sina. Thanks for coming on today. Hi, Amelia. I’m feeling very lonely sitting here in this highly sterilized recording booth all by myself while you’re at home. But is this, is this our new norm? Well, I think it’s gonna be the new norm for a while at least. And of course there’s lots of speculation that it might, uh, might catch on.
I don’t know. I know. Well, look, I wanted to ask you, Can us moms adjust to homeschooling our children and balancing work simultaneously? It’s a pretty big ask, don’t you think? I think it’s a very big ask. I think the first thing to remember is that you’re not gonna do everything perfectly from day one.
And in fact, I think it’s gonna take everyone a bit of time to get used to it. Maybe people will never get used to it. Um, so the. Thing is to be kind to yourself and not ask too much because this is uncharted waters. And even we, we’ve worked with, um, at Chloe, we’ve worked with homeschooling families for some time and even those families who’ve been homeschooling for years still need extra support and still need some time out.
So it’s understandable if new homeschooling families are feeling the. Being kind to yourself is such a great starting point because we can put a lot of pressure on ourselves, especially when you’re kind of starting out in that homeschooling pattern and you’re seeing online, you know, sticker charts and reward charts and all these great things that people are doing.
When it does come to homeschooling, how crucial is structure and routine for kids to maintain that sense of normality? I think it’s very important and it’s actually a, a sort of easy thing to start with. It’s helpful not just for kids. I think it’s for really helpful for moms as well. So I would say start as you mean, to continue as much as you can.
That is what you know the minute that, uh, you’re in the homeschooling situation, I would start the day at the same time as kids are used to starting school so that you are. Um, tapping into a routine that is already familiar to them. Um, and I would set some clear ground rules to begin with if you can co-construct them with your kids, depending on the age of them, of course, that’s really helpful.
So that you are, you are demonstrating your willingness to be cooperative and you’re not gonna just be imposing the rules as the parent. So co-construct some rules. Start the day. Where they’re used to starting the day and have a schedule for study and for breaks, and I would even schedule in some chats with their friends, put those in because they’re used to talking to their friends and playing with them at recess and at lunchtime.
So I would definitely factor that into their whole structure as well. Yeah. I wanna talk about that friendship element in a sec, but what do you mean by co-constructing rules? Well, it’s about sitting down together. And making a list of things that you can all live with that will keep a degree of order around the day.
So you might say, Well, I want you to wear your score uniform. A lot of schools are suggesting that, and it may, that may be a step too far for your kids. So by co-constructing, I’m saying if you say wear your school uniform and your kids say no, at least you can compromise and say, Well, let’s just not wear pajamas.
Let’s just wear clothes. So to some extent you are, you are creating a situation where they feel consulted, um, and they have genuinely been consulted so that they feel that the rules are something that they have contributed. I’ve seen parents take two approaches to this and I’m thinking about my sister and I as an example.
Cause we’re kind of taking two quite different approaches. So my husband and I have agreed to homeschool on alternate days for two to three hours in the morning. So for example, I might do it on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Um, we’re saying from, you know, eight 30 till 1130, I’m on homeschooling duty. I’m blocked out my work calendar so people can’t schedule time with me.
And then my hub’s doing the alternate days in the. Thing and that way for the rest of the day, we’re kind of just letting them run wild, basically. versus my sister who’s got teenage kids who is working simultaneously at the table. So she’s working on her, you know, work stuff while they’re doing their work.
Is that what you are seeing as well? Is there one way that’s better than the other or any recommendations from. Look, I don’t think that there is any one way that works perfectly for everyone. It sounds to me like you’ve got a plan that works well for you and your sister equally has worked out something that works for her.
We talk to a lot of parents, as you can imagine, and everyone is taking a slightly different approach, and I think it’s, it’s got to be sustainable, really. So if it works better for you, and it depends on the age of the kids. If your children are younger, you’re probably taking a slightly more directive role with.
So having that very concentrated time is probably more meaningful. But if your children are older and they’re much more self directed and they’re getting on with the work that’s been sent home from school, you may find that you’re more of a facilitator. You know, you’re sitting next to them and you are answering questions as they come up, rather than having to actually teach them the concepts.
So it depends very much. on the needs of your children and the needs of the family. I really think parents shouldn’t be aiming to look for a perfect solution because, um, there won’t be a perfect solution. Yeah. And coming back to your very first point about being kind to yourself and knowing that it isn’t going to be perfect and you know, if they do end up bouncing off the walls, you haven’t failed.
That’s right. A bit of a bit of wall balancing might be good, might even be beneficial. What about the environment? How do we set up the classroom, so to speak? Well, the first thing is to remember that it’s not a classroom and it doesn’t need to be a classroom. I think it’s impossible to do that anyway, but it is after all the homes still.
So it’s, it’s about having a delineation between domestic space and working space, but not really aiming to do anything. Change is the way you live as a family Completely. My advice would be if you are all sitting down together and working in the same space and often in families that will be working at the kitchen table for, for moms.
Really just to focus on moving all the meal off the table and making sure that it feels as much like working space as possible. And I would suggest as well for some kids, they really. To have their own space. One thing you can do, and I’ve found it very effective in some of the, um, schools that I’ve consulted to, you get the kid to make their own little, um, barrier using a, an opened up cardboard box so they can put it around themselves and they can decorate it, and that can be.
Workspace, and that of course is portable. So they can move around the house and put their little workspace around them, and then when they’re there with that space up, that’s working time. So you can do it a couple of different ways, but that works quite well for some kids. I have found what’s worked well for, for us is that at eight 30 in the morning, I take the kids outside for fresh air and it kind of simulates that going to school, um, time.
And then when we come in the house, I’ve been joking and saying It’s not Mummy, now it’s Mrs. Mum . And um, and kind of. You know, even though we’re sitting in the exact same space I was sitting in having the breakfast, I’ve, I make it feel a little bit different. And I think that that just reframed it slightly.
That’s a good idea. And the other thing I found helped in breaking up the different modalities, I will say grab a beam bag and okay, we’re gonna do reading on the beam bag so that they’re moving around a little bit, even if it’s just around the four corners of the same room, just to break it up, to keep them engaged as.
I think it’s a very good idea. Um, and bearing in mind that one thing we, we don’t want necessarily for reading to feel like work. We want it to feel like fun and to be enjoyable and relaxing. So I think choosing something like a bean bag for that is a really good idea. Um, and it may well be that depending on the size of your home, you can use different rooms for different functions.
The important thing is that you have kids doing their learning in a, you know, a public. Shared part of the house rather than always just tucked away in their bedrooms. How do we keep our kids engaged in learning? Like even with my kids, it’s only been a short time and their attention span day to day just fluctuates so dramatically.
I’m, I’m really worried that, you know, when the novelty wears off, I won’t be able to keep them engaged. That might be the, the biggest question of all. Any educators ever ask, let alone parents. So, um, I think the first thing is if your children’s, um, attention spans are fluctuating, that’s probably very understandable.
Under the circumstances there’s a lot of distraction. It’s, it’s all novel. Um, and I think everybody’s feeling a little bit anxious. So I’d, I’d definitely be. Generous and cut them a bit of slack. In terms of keeping kids engaged, it is possibly about variety. One thing we notice is that, um, in most timetables in schools, there’s quite a lot of shift from one subject to the next, or one activity or one topic area to the next because children’s attention spans are shorter than adult attention spans.
So, Rather than feel that they need to spend a full hour on a particular task, you, you might find that they actually can only concentrate really meaningfully for about 20 minutes. The advice I often give families, um, and particularly moms who are in this really unusual situation, is to think in terms of an hour as three 20 minute blocks for you.
Students for younger children, you might need to get them to focus for 20 minutes and then have a quick break. And buy a quick break. I mean, you know, I do five jumping jacks on the spot and then they can concentrate for another 20 minutes, but they probably can’t concentrate for the full hour, whereas older kids can.
And that gives you a sense of. How much concentration you can expect from them for any, you know, period of time. There’s actually a great app that I use in the workplace called the Pomodoro Method, and it’s, Oh yes. Have you heard of it? Yes, I have. Isn’t it great? It’s based off the Italian kitchen timer that’s shaped like a tomato and it’s essentially where you focus for 20 minutes and then you have a, a quick five or 10 minute break.
I think that would be great for teenagers to download the app and, and have something like that on their devices. Absolutely. And that fits into an hour. So it’s, it’s quite a useful way to be able to work out how much time you need to devote to, to any particular activity.
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I’ve also heard you talking about one of the best ways to learn is to teach Yes. And having the kids teach us. Can you elaborate on that? I love this concept. It’s a great concept and it’s very, very effective. Um, and it’s effective whether you are homeschooling or whether children actually going to school.
So it’s, it’s all purpose. One of the, the great ways to learn is to teach, and I know this is a teacher, I think most teachers know this. The, the more you teach something, the better you understand it. And if you apply the same thing to children, it really comes down to asking them to teach you what they’re learning at school or learning from school.
So if, if material is going home from school at the moment, one of the best ways to, to actually get them to learn it is to get them to teach it to you. And it, it’s also a great way to show that you don’t know everyth. As mom, I was just about to say that. For all those moms out there with teenage kids, and you don’t need to know everything, they get to know more than you, gives them a little burst of confidence.
Um, and the, the, the real thing as a, as mom is to the temp, you must avoid the temptation to know more than them. So you really obviously correct them if they’re absolutely wrong. Cause that’s not gonna work. But mostly it’s about just listening and then asking those prompting questions that will get them to go a bit deeper, perhaps to elaborate.
It’s a very good practice. It, it actually embeds the neural pathways that we want them to embed for, for. And for application of knowledge. So it’s a very powerful tool and it’s very straightforward. The other thing you can do is get to get older siblings to teach younger siblings concepts. That’s really good as well.
I’ve also heard you talk about the first this, then that system. What’s that all about? Well, it’s about, um, Deferring gratification, but making sure that kids know that there is something else on the horizon. So it’s, it’s teaching them to make good choices. It’s teaching them to get this task out of the way that they may not want to do, because once we’ve done that, then we’ve got something to look forward to.
And it’s, it’s actually teaching them time management skills actually. The, the way to do it is to say, First we’re gonna do these mass exercises, and then we are going to sit in the garden and play with the dog. So you are, you are saying to them, This time will end and there’s something to look forward to.
You’re not bribing them, but you are implying that if they get this done, then there’ll be something as a reward. But I think it’s very important that you don’t. Using the language of reward because that gets you into a bit of trouble down the track. Why is that? I think I use that language all the time.
I think it’s problem. I mean, look, everybody, every parent ever has done that and there’s nothing fundamentally wrong, but I think in this case, We want them to like learning. We don’t want to create the impression that learning is a terrible thing and that they what? They’re definitely going to dislike doing it, and that’s why we have to give them a reward of something that they’re definitely gonna like, because actually children like learning.
So there’s no need to assume. That learning is a drag. And I think when we use the work, the terms of reward, it’s like, I’m rewarding you for doing something you didn’t want to do. So I think we have to be very careful not to set up the expectation in their minds that they shouldn’t enjoy it. That is really interesting because it’s just a reframing, like I’m thinking about what I was doing yesterday, which was basically, okay, look, if you, if you do five more pages of this, I’ll let you, you know, go downstairs and watch a bit of tv.
Whereas if I’d use that more first this, and then we’ll get to do that. It’s, it’s the same thing. It’s just reframing it slightly. That’s right. Well, they pick up from you. They pick up from their moms the messaging about how they should be thinking about this thing. So for example, if you say, Oh, I, I hated math.
Therefore, I don’t really expect you to like maths, but maybe that’s not true. Maybe they love math, so we have to be very careful not to put these sort of value laid in words around what they’re learning. One thing I’m really struggling with at the moment is patience. I mean, I have such a newfound respect for school teachers.
I, I just, Frustrated so quickly. Charlotte’s got the attention span of a fl. I’m like, Sit still Locklin. Get your finger outta your nose. Guys. Listen. And I just find myself getting more and more worked up. . How do they deal with 25 kids? I just have no idea. But what can I do about my patient, Sele? Is there anything, Can I hide a bottle of wine under the table?
Well, look, I’d never tell you not to do that. I think it’s probably quite a sensible thing to do, really under the circumstances. Um, look, the first thing is to remember. It’s easier for teachers than for moms. It’s easier for teachers because they’re not our children and they don’t know how to push our buttons.
Our own children know exactly how to do that, so it is a different relationship. But I think as a teacher, your patience has always been tested. It’s, it’s such an old fashioned concept, but it works really well. I’d count to 10. I almost feel embarrassed giving you that advice cause it seems so obvious.
But truly I have seen, I have seen red, I’ve had classrooms of kids and I’ve just seen red. And the only way to stop myself from acting in that moment is to count to 10. And maybe it’s. A first this, then that situation where I said to myself, I’m just gonna count to 10 and then I’m going to respond. And by the time you get to 10, it’s amazing how that, that flash of anger just dissipates.
You know what else I just thought of then is that, um, I’m gonna save some of those hysterical memes that are going around and just have them in my phone and with both of you just have a quick glance at them and, and have a, you know, just remember that whole taking the pressure off and being kind.
Absolutely. Another challenge is managing behavior, be it rudeness, apathy, distraction. I, I just feel like my kids have no respect these days. How do we manage behavior in our home classrooms? I think the, the first and the easiest thing to do is to make sure that if you’ve set up that space for learning, that you keep conflict.
Out of the space and teachers do this often, if there’s an issue with a particular child, they will probably move the child into a different space to have the conversation about it. Um, so I would definitely try and keep a distinction between the sort of discipline space and the learning space so that the learning space doesn’t become contaminated by any kind.
Conflict or anxiety. I mean, it’s easier said than done, but that’s, that’s one thing to, to aim for. I think in the end you will find that your, your teacher discipline is gonna look a bit like your mum discipline because you are mum, and, and not to beat yourself up about that. I think also that kind of preventative approach, as you were mentioning earlier, by having those boundaries set up and having the kids understanding the structure so that there are no hidden surprises.
Oh, I thought we were gonna only do this for five more minutes and now you’re telling me it’s 25 minutes. And you know, expectation. Exactly. Transparency is really important. Being very clear about what your expectations are and sticking to them and not shifting from the minute you said, This is what we’re doing.
You’ve gotta stick to it. This is what I guess the timetable gives you. That’s what teachers do all the time. These are the rules. And maybe in that very early phase of co-constructing those rules, You may might ask kids, what do you think is the appropriate thing for us to do? You know, if somebody misbehaves or if somebody doesn’t do what they’re told?
Funnily, children in the abstract are very good at coming up with good punishments. Actually, they don’t like it much when it’s actually, it’s actually enacted, but they’re very good at coming up with them. So I, I’d ask them what they think would work. I really love this idea of working together as a family to come up with that structure.
I just think that is absolute gold. Selena, one parting tip for parents like me who are struggling with the thought of months of homeschooling ahead. I think the most important thing is to remember, because there’s a lot of debate about this, um, out there in the world that screen time is not the. . Um, I really urge parents not to feel that they have to police every single use of technology.
In fact, your great benefit right now is the amount of online resources that are out there. So I’d make a distinction between using the screen for learning and using the screen for playing and take advantage of all the opportunities out there to get the sort of support that all the. Moms and dads out there are, are looking for right now.
Ah, Selena, you have been such a wealth of information and relief for me. Thank you so much. You’re very welcome. Good luck.
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